12.6.05

“Attitudes to the Poor in New Testament Times”

See article here.

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The first note I'd like to make is that the social classes of our day (I speak as a Westerner) bear little resemblance to those in ancient societies. Jeffers asks us to "Imagine a society in which the gulf between the upper class and all others was so wide that their members had virtually nothing in common. Imagine that you were forbidden by law to marry someone of another class, and upward mobility was frowned upon. Imagine a legal system that always favored the upper class. Imagine a society in which, with very few exceptions, your status at birth determined the course of your future life. While we may be able to think of examples of this kind of separation in American society, it is nothing like the chasm between those at the top and those at the bottom in Roman society that existed at all times in every place." (The Greco-Roman World, p.181)

The second note is about the penês (people who did manual labor) and how they were viewed. It is true that they were dependant upon others, though I don't suppose we moderns would really note that--it doesn't matter to us. So once again we are at odds with the intricacies of honor-shame societies. The craftsman is dependant on others, but then again, it's others who require the skills of the craftsman. Keep in mind, though, that what's being presented in that quote is an elite class perspective. Consider, "Romans considered wealth an essential requirement of the virtuous life. In contrast with the popular American idea that the wealthy are less honest because power corrupts, the Roman elite believed that only the rich could afford to be honest. They reasoned that the poor must do whatever is necessary to survive and so are more likely to lie, cheat and steal." (The Greco-Roman World, p.189) Whereas we would often praise artisians for their skill (and pay them large sums of money for public works), this apparently was not the case in ancient times.

The
ptôchos, however, were at the bottom rung of the social ladder. Maybe they could not even obtain meat or wine. Apparently they had extraordinarily little honor. And there was a whopping 15% of the total population of these folks.

Regarding the application of the social structure to Paul's comments in 1 Cor. 7:17, 24, such a piece of the picture of Paul is important, but I do believe Paul would not have held a 100% strictness on this--close to 100%, but not quite. The reason is Jesus; a Galilean, son of a carpenter, who fought and won a lot of honor in his time. Maybe I'm off the mark here; I'm not really sure if Jesus changed class. If 'prophet' or 'messiah/king' was a class, then that carpenter boy certainly did. On another note, I believe that the average modern person would NOT like this at all (and maybe think it absurd and irrational). We would certainly move up the economic ranks if we could (winning the lottery would be nice).

Tiberius' rule was 14-37 AD, so the gospels are near the middle of the heavy taxation Neyrey speaks of.

The rich get richer--indeed. Social reform was very rare; the only meaningful social revolutions needed to be done by powerful upper class lads. I remember reading about an Emperor (one of the 'mighty five' or something like that, who went on to be the Emperor) who made several important reformations. Otherwise, social change came at the hands of disaster, or military force. (So it was thought! Jesus taught another way.) But due to the social structure and how there was no drive for equality at all, the gulf between the rich and the poor only grew wider.

The Plutarch quote is funny (wealth isn't about you, it's about your image), but it shows how the drive for honor would determine behaviour.

5 comments:

  1. This reminds me very much of the social situation in Nepal.

    The same strict social classes, the same view of the working and begging poor, etc. are very evident in that culture...Paul's statement in 1 Cor. 7 seems to me to be very Hindu. (Though, I know it is not.)

    When I read this, it is very easy for me to visualize the city of Kathmandu and the effects of such a social system on the people of lower classes. I remember the begging poor, those untouchables, often without family and the working class with enough to provide food and a home, but no more, and also the huge palace of the king or the temple of the Kumari. It comes very much alive--and from that picture it is not horribly difficulty to transition into sn image of a more Jewish, less Hindu culture.

    Hm. Where was I going with that? I have absolutely no idea, lol. Errm. I know I was going to say something else. I just forgot what it was. Hmph. This is rather annoying.

    Oh well....

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  2. Yeah, Paul's statement can be caste-ish...

    Well, I've three books lined up for my next order:
    - deSilva's Honor, Patronage, Kinship & Purity
    - Malina & Rohrbaugh, Social-Science Commentary on the Synoptics
    - Pilch, Handbook of Biblical Values

    I read something today that kind of resolves a conflict I had with understanding honor and other values. Deliberately avoiding any poisioning of the well, quote is, "This commentator argued how, for instance, the citizens of Iraq would've come to admire Hussein even though he's an admitted Stalin-admiring tyrant- that's the way things work in a honor-shame society." I could not envision a society in which both upper classes and lower classes held the same values, or the same opinions. I remember a historian (I think he was, anyway) on the Discovery channel saying something like, "Rome was one of the places where you could insult the lower class and you'd find the lower class agreeing with you." That would make a great authoritative quote, by the way..."--some guy on the Discovery channel who might be a historian"

    I'm guessing this is because of my own experience--"everyone to their own view". I can imagine some experience of a collectivist society; when I was younger all my friends held the same (pretty much) views about everything. But now with so many different presups and driving desires, this is hard to imagine (or accept).

    The quote is from here-- http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1068138&postcount=16

    Note well; the dude is a skeptic. He's one of the few intelligent and informed (double-I) guys I've seen @ TWeb... come to think of it... I haven't seen any at CF. Anyway...

    Later on next week I'll review the article and see what comments I can make on various passages. Feel free to do that yourself (and post it); I am quite busy this week and my weekend has a high probability of being full--funeral.

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  3. this is very interesting, and it changes my perspective when reading the new testament. you guys are way cooler than i am. tia, i got msn messenger now. You and cory finally convinced me.

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  4. Yay Jordan! :)

    Yes, it does change one's perspective when reading the NT...That's part of the reason I think it is so important.

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  5. The whole purpose of the Agora is to post material relating to the ANE, and attempt to discuss, so far as we can, its differences with our own lives, and how it affects our interpretation of the bible.

    And it is an amateur discussion forum. Are you a professional scholar? No? Interested in the role of socio-historical context in interpretation? Yes? Then you are an amateur, and you qualify.

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